This is a continuation of the Ragas and Scales post covering why a raga based melody sounds so different from a western melody even if both can be said to be based on the same scale. I am comparing the raga Sankarabharanam with its western counterpart – the major scale, and covered a few obvious differences in the previous post. Now I will cover a couple more here. First one again is perhaps obvious, but the second is a very interesting and important difference.
Discrete vs. Continuous
In carnatic music, the gamakas not only adorn/embellish swaras with pitch modulations, but also perform the role as “links” between previous/succeeding swaras in the melody. When going from one swara to another swara that typically takes gamakas, it is common for this transition to be started with a slide as the initial part of the gamaka. Let us go back to the sample that played the Sankarabharanam swaras just straight up and down in Carnatic style:
If you listen carefully, you will find that the modulation of ri (the second swara being struck) in this case included a lead-in from the previous swara sa. The same applies for ma (4th swara), and for dha (6th swara). This sort of a movement where a “slide” is implicitly part of a swara that has gamakas is quite common although not mandatory. In my opinion, it helps in maintaining melodic continuity as you transition swaras – something which seems important in Carnatic music. Even when you have jumps like sa-pa (D-A), sa-ma (D-G), and smaller jumps, it is quite common for it to include a slide from the first swara to the next.
Looking at the flip side, in western music notes are held flat more often, a lot lot more often. While slides are indeed part of the music, they are not used as often, and not “implicitly” (as explained above) as in Carnatic music. So it is typical for a Carnatic music listener to perceive a western melody to have a “discrete flow”, and a Carnatic melody to have a much more “continuous flow”.
Skippin’ n Jumpin swaras/notes
The last difference I cover seems like an important key to the puzzle. I learned about it first in a DVD by Guitar Prasanna called Ragamorphism, where he deals with this same topic – how is a raga from a scale? He says that in a western melody, there will be lots of jumps between notes. By a “jump”, we mean e.g. a transition from D to F# in the major scale on D, and thus skipping the E note which is indeed part of the scale (note: for the majors scale on D, F is absent). In a Carnatic melody, a jump would e.g. be a transition from sa to ga for a raga that includes ri in the ascent. In a scale, you are free to jump from one note to any other note with aesthetics as being the only criteria. On the other hand, in a Carnatic melody, you have to honor the ordering of the swaras in the underlying raga structure. Prasanna mentions that this does not mean that jumps are disallowed in Carnatic melodies – just that in general, order must be followed. Prasanna then demonstrates by first playing something that is based on the major scale, and then something in Sankarabharanam.
That section from that DVD was a very good clue to an answer I was searching for a while. It wasn’t a complete answer as Prasanna does not explain much beyond that i.e. what is meant “general order must be followed”. He just let his guitar do the talking. I delved into this a bit more and I think I am now able to understand it better.
Western music does have more jumps compared Carnatic music even though the latter Carnatic music does permit jumps – sa-pa, sa-ma, ga-da, ri-pa, ni-ri, da-ri etc. all figure regularly. So what does “Western music have more jumps that Carnatic” mean? This can be summed up by two points:
- Two consecutive jumps are quite rare in Carnatic music. An example of this is D-A-E in major scale, where D-A is a jump followed by A-E which a jump. In Carnatic, this would e.g. be ni ri n or sa ga pa say in a raga which includes all swaras in ascent and descent. I will refer to these as Double Jumps from now on.
- The # of jumps itself is not that high in carnatic music. Hence, the probability of a swara being either preceded or followed by one of its neighbouring swara in the raga structure is very high. So for example, if we take ri in Sankarabharanam, the chances of it occurring as one of sa-ri, ri-sa, ri-ga, ga-ri is very high. In other words, “general order of the swaras in the raga structure” is followed.
Note that by ‘jump’ here we also include jump from one note/swara to the same note/swara up or down an an octave.
But how rare is rare and how high is high? How does it compare to western music? We of course need some metrics that allows us to see whether there is any truth to the above assertions. So here it is: I analyzed the melody lines of a few Western and Carnatic pieces, tabulating how many note/swara transitions there are, how many of them are double jumps, and how many are single jumps, and thus how often is the next note a neighbor (as per scale/raga structure). Here are the results:
| Name | Transitions1 | Double Jumps | Single Jumps | Next / Previous is neighbour |
| Western | ||||
| Pastorale – Domenico Zipelli | 119 | 53 (44.54%) | 7 (5.8%) | 59 (49.58%) |
| Minuet in G – Mozart2 | 92 | 44 (47.83%) | 6 (6.52%) | 42 (45.65%) |
| Minuet in G – Bach3 | 111 | 7 (6.32%) | 13 (11.71%) | 91 (81.97%) |
| Gavotte – Arcango Corelli | 69 | 20 (28.98%) | 4 (5.8%) | 45 (65.22%) |
| Carnatic – Sankarabharanam raga based songs | ||||
| Sami ninne – Adi tala varnam | 331 | 4 (1.21%) | 50 (15.1%) | 277 (83.69%) |
| Chalamela – Ata tala varnam | 499 | 11 (4.01%) | 64 (12.83%) | 424 (84.96%) |
| Carnatic – other ragas | ||||
| ninnukOri – mohana raga varnam | 271 | 3 (1.11%) | 17 (6.27%) | 251 (92.62%) |
| evvari bodhana – Abhogi raga varnam | 290 | 3 (1.03%) | 17 (5.86%) | 296 (93.11%) |
| vanajaskhiro- kalyani raga varnam | 345 | 11 (3.19%) | 38 (11.01%) | 296 (85.80%) |
| era napai – todi raga varnam4 | 458 | 44 (9.61%) | 61 (13.32%) | 353 (77.07%) |
1 – Does not include transitions involving accidental notes in western pieces (very few if any for those shown).
2 – Minuet in G by Mozart involves key shifts from G-Major scale to C-Major Scale. The pieces also contain a few accidentals.
3 – Minuet in G by Bach involves key shifts from G-Major scale to C-Major Scale. The pieces also contain a few accidentals.
In the above table,
- Transitions is the total number of note/swara transitions or change of note/swara including jumps to the same note in a different octave in the song/melody (a repeat of same note is not a transition: B C C D D or S R R G G would contain 3 transitions). In case of western pieces, this also does not include transitions involving accidental notes. The pieces shown above have very few accidentals (if any).
- Also, it should be noted that only the melody of the treble clef was considered. This does distort the picture a bit as the bass line melody could be “compensating” for some jumps. However, my guess is that this is not a significant distortion
- Double jumps is the # of transitions that are part of two consecutive jumps as explained above.
- Single Jumps is the # of occurrences of a transition from note/swara X to note/swara Y that skips over one or more intervening notes/swaras as defined by the scale/raga.
I should note that the western pieces picked are not exactly a representative set. They are just the ones my colleague gave me “as a start” when I asked her for some pieces which are in the major scale, did not use accidentals much and stuck to one key. Judging by the number of transitions between the western pieces and the carnatic pieces, we can see that perhaps more complex ones from western should have been picked. However, it is also possible that in more complex western pieces, there would be more accidentals, more key/scale changes, and also polyphony, making a comparison less meaningful.
What the data means
As you can see from the table, the varnams involve a lot of transitions, which I think is not that unique to varnams, and would be typical for all carnatic melodies. In spite of the large number of transitions, these melodies involve very few double jumps. Looking at the last column, the percentage of time that a swara is preceded/followed by the neigbouring swara in the raga structure is quite high – 80% or even higher. This I believe is a key characteristic of how a Carnatic raga uses its underlying swara structure. This seems to apply to all ragas although it is easier to quantify for ragas that have a symmetrical structure.
You may notice that even among the Carnatic set, the mohanam and the abhogi varnams have very very few jumps, with the last column showing a figure > 90%. This could be because these ragas have pentatonic structure – this is just my guess. Also you may notice that the todi varnam has a much higher percentage of double-jumps compared to other songs. A large portion of the varnam has the pa (fifth) is completely absent. Skipping pa (but done judiciously) is not uncommon for that raga. Perhaps symmetrically, it is also not uncommon for the sa (tonic) to be skipped. All this allows for many M-D-M or D-M-D, and N-R-N occurrences, and thus perhaps a high jump %, and a lower (<80%) last column figure.
In the western side, Bach’s Minuet does have “Carnatic like” usage of the scale implying that even this is possible in western music. However, all others involve significant # of double jumps, which I suspect is more common.
However, an analysis of a bigger sample set with more representative pieces may be needed before we can confirm this.
Conclusions
So there you go. There are several factors that make a carnatic melody sound very different from a western melody based on the equivalent scale. You have
- Gamakas
- Continuity between swaras
- Fundamental difference in how the basic structure is used in terms of avoiding double jumps, not too many jumps, and thus honoring order determined by the raga structure.
Have you ever wondered why sometimes a film song that is supposed to based on raga has only a faint hint of that raga? We all know film songs can be like that, but how/why are they different? Why can’t they resemble Carnatic songs in that raga more? Well – it could the absence of one or more of the above. Besides it may employ accidentals or foreign notes and also change keys change like western pieces. So film songs that are loosely based on a raga are sort of like western pieces. However, they are typically much closer – they may include one of the above.
That’s it folks. Hope you found the Ragas and Scales comparison interesting.
The end
August 31, 2007 at 6:44 pm
“That’s it folks. Hope you found the Ragas and Scales comparison interesting.”//
Yeah, quite so, quite so. Very.
Actually, the only words I managed to find I understand without having generalised tonic-clonic convulsions were: “The end”.
Congratulations, and shall we move on to the next topic?
Arun: But I am putting up with worse stuff on your blog doc – the least you could do is reciprocate
. Or are you training to become a troll
?
August 31, 2007 at 9:41 pm
“But I am putting up with worse stuff on your blog”//
You have a point there!
September 4, 2007 at 10:45 am
Good summary Arun!
You have nicely explained why
1. The Barney theme song and Sami Ninne seem to come from two planets (absense of Gamakas)
2. Why we don’t detect Keeravani in most filmi songs that are based on minor scale ( quite a few songs are composed on this)
3. How double jumps or multiple jumps define a western trait – and this explains why some of our compositions look western ( kadana kutUhala, svararanjani etc)
-neelanjana
September 4, 2007 at 12:06 pm
Super comparison Arun. I have to do a lot of reading before I understand it completely.
Arun: Thanks priyank. Please do read it when you find time and let me know.
September 4, 2007 at 1:46 pm
@neelanjana: Thanks! Actually you are bringing up something which adds a new dimension to this topic: Why do some ragas “sound western”? In this, we have katanakutUhaLam, kuntalavarALi, supOshini and I guess svararanjani too? Havent heard that one. I think in each case, the structure of these raga itself involves wide intervals (e.g. S M, P S). So sort of like the parent mela raga with many jumps perhaps?
Now as per my definition above these wouldn’t be jumps. If raga’s structure has “S M”, then none of the “S M” occurrences would qualify as jumps. But nevertheless, just the presence of wide intervals between neighboring swaras in the structure itself gives a “western feel”.
One of the theories I am putting forth based on that last difference in Part 2 is that the jumps play a large part in dissolving the raga flavor/swaroopa. So take any raga i.e. not necessarily these “westernish” ones. Start skipping swaras, thus introducing lot of single and/or double jumps such that e.g. the last column starts approaching 30% or higher. I think then the “raga swaroopa” would be almost fully lost. I am not sure if it would start sounding “western” because of that – just that it will not resemble the raga (or being carnatic – unless it happens to match supOshini etc.).
Also consider this. Imagine you are listening to 2 samples that are supposedly based on “raga X”, which is not a rakthi raga (i.e. not one whose raga flavor is very much determined by gamakas):
1. First sample is a song which maintains the order of swaras in X, but all swaras are rendered “flat”.
2. Second sample is a song that does have gamakas (as much as possible) in its swaras, but has many many jumps – single and double.
Both would be poor imitations of raga X, but which one would resemble raga X less? I guess it is hard to know for sure, but I am leaning towards #2. At least that’s my theory
September 4, 2007 at 2:42 pm
@arunk
svara ranjani (may also be called as suraranjani)has a composition by MV (probably) – raghunAtha ninnu; Search Rasikas.org – You may find more info on it. Yes, Proably it was inspired by kadanakutUhala.
About your last 2 postulates – I can’t agree for sure. If you take a rAga like mOhana (pretty much scalar), but one that takes jumps(See, I am talking your language
, #2 probably seems a better representation of the rAga. Sing for yourself prayogas such as s g r p g d p s – s p g d p r – etc.
I have seen some compositions done by someone – which are supposed to be based on some rAgas – They can be source for some research for you
-ನೀಲಾಂಜನ
September 4, 2007 at 3:10 pm
Good point(s).
> s g r p g d p s – s p g d p r
. IMO double jumps dissolve the raga swaroopa much faster than single jumps. Look at the table above for the western music cases – the double jumps outnumber the single jumps. Perhaps we have to compare something with enough double-jumps and also something longer than just 1 prayoga?
But there is only one double jump here (p s p) and that too between two phrases
PS: But I do think over-abundance of dAtu prayogas in a song would also be skating on thin ice. To me, raga swaroopa is sort of diminished even there.
BTW, mohanam may have a recognizable underlying scalar structure but the raga mohanam is most definitely not scalar
I do think the term scalar used like here in carnatic is quite an inappropriate usage. It is intended to convey “not phrase oriented” and/or “recognizable even if sung flat”. As I have indicated, IMO, “scalar” in the western sense implies beyond that (like double jumps) and that part is more important.
September 4, 2007 at 5:12 pm
[...] Music Sankar Khrishnamurthy 10:12 pm Arunk has quite an extensive writeup on Ragas and Scales (Part 2). There is also a Ragas and Scales (Part 1). I have not read through both of them, yet. After [...]
September 6, 2007 at 11:17 am
I’ve decided there is no way I can even try to understand your continuing thesis on your blog, except on the weekend, so you’ll have to wait till Monday to see if I understood anything at all!
Or rather, to see how much I didn’t understand!
Arun:
Yeah – I know it turned out much heavier than I thought – although it is not entirely surprising. Actually my guess is that HM may share similar traits to CM here (in terms of not too many jumps – particularly double-jumps). Maybe you and/or priyank can check
February 25, 2008 at 9:23 am
hi, just came across this post accidentally. haven’t had a chance to read up part 1 yet. but i would have thought another important characteristic that would differentiate western scales from carnatic ‘melody-scales’ is the sancharam aspect. you sort of touched on it when you discussed the whole idea of ragamorphisms and jumps etc. so, a part of that is also some repetitive swara patterns that are distinct to a particular raga. for example, GGR in mohanam. i am not very familiar with the whole sancharam idea; i don’t think it is a defined set of rules, but more an inherent understanding of what the raga should sound like. perhaps you could expand..
February 25, 2008 at 12:05 pm
Thanks for visiting dharini.
I don’t know all about sancharam. From what I understand, it is basically an improvisation technique, but one which revolves around a certain anchor/”theme” – e.g. a line of the song (and thus a specific tune but also a certain emotion carried by the tune i.e. raga, as well as lyrics), or a basic underlying swara-pattern.
But I don’t know if
(a) this technique is an inherent, exclusive by-product of how raga uses the underlying scale (and so wont make sense for a western context),
(or)
(b) it just happens to be something that Indian music employs as a result of how it evolved (and so theoretically something similar is possible even in the western use of the scale).
(or)
(c)Something similar may already exist in the western context (e.g. in improvisatory forms like Jazz) – and we dont know it.
But honestly I don’t know.
July 9, 2008 at 2:01 pm
Great information. Thanks a million.
Arun: Thanks Mohan and welcome to my blog